I'm curious as to specifically what parts of the Truth Project you consider to be lies? And on what basis you might make such an assertion?My answer, Bob, is this:
The core point of view presented by The Lie Project seems to be: All Those Godless Scientists and Psychologists Are Lying To You About Everything So You Should Listen To Us Biblically-Based Christian Smart Guys in Turtlenecks and Suit Jackets Like Dr. Del Tackett (he looks a little like Jed Clampett dressed up, hmm) Because We True Christians© Are Smart And Will Tell You The Inerrant Truth About Geology, Paleontology, Psychology, and Even Faith.This is a huge lie because (1) the very value of the Bible is that its beauty and truth transcends and illuminates anything we learn in science, and (2) the very value of science is that it is based on doubt and objectivity and tells us things Scripture simply cannot. When you hear about a scientific issue being re-investigated, it isn't because the idea is necessarily wrong, that's just what scientists do.
Pushing a Big Lie of an "alternative" faith and science custom-crafted for "Us Real Christians" cheapens both. It also has the side effect of damaging our relationship with other Christians, other humans, and creation.
After 25 years of these reactionary, exclusionist ideas (many of them based on ignorance of the nature of science) being proclaimed as "post-post-modern thought," this scientist and Christian has had it and now tries to speak up for the value of good science and good theology at every opportunity.
The Bible clearly teaches that π equals 3.000 (1 Kings 7:23, you can look it up). I praise God He gave us other ways to learn about the world (and other folks to learn it from than Focus On The Family).
If you are ready to learn from Dr. Del Tackett, it's a free country, don't let me stop you. The South Dakota Family Policy Council is setting up classes right here in Rapid City. They'd love to sign you up.
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You spent about five paragraphs telling me you don't like the Truth Project, but I'm still hoping you might tell me what specifically in the Truth Project material is a lie, on on what basis you make that assertion.
ReplyDeleteThe truth is that the reason this program even exists is that evangelicals know very little of the Bible.
ReplyDeleteHere are a good sampling of lies:
- Carl Sagan is wrong when he says we are made of "start stuff"
- The United States is built on Christianity, not the Constitution (I wonder what Tom Paine would have had to say about that.)
- The Bible recommends the Flat Tax. (I thought the conservative party line was that we should give, not be taxed? These people confuse me.)
- "The Truth Project devotes much energy to warnings about the greedy state becoming a monster, but the modern corporation makes not even the briefest cameo" -- Alexander Zaitchik, on Alternet.
"Follow those who seek the truth. Flee those who have found it."
The closest any of those "samplings" comes to being accurate is the first one, though Sagan didn't say we're made of "start stuff" (I'm assuming that's a typo, since Sagan said "star stuff")
ReplyDeleteWhen Sagan said we're made of "star stuff" he was implying there is a direct chain of evolution/development between the beginning of all matter to our current state of existence.
The rest of your statements are, at best, distortions of what is said in the Truth Project.
The Project says nothing to diminish the Constitution as the founding document (after the Declaration) of our United States government. However, only glaring ignorance or brazen dishonesty can assert that the Founders of the United States were predominately Christians and that the country was founded on Christian ideals and precepts with a Christian worldview in mind when they did so.
I might have missed it, but I don't have the single, slightest recollection of the Flat Tax even being mentioned, much less sanctioned.
It did, however, point out that the modern "progressive" tax system we have is nothing but legalized theft. Such wealth-redistribution schemes are born of envy and greed (sins), and that the Bible speaks against recklessly giving money without determining genuine need. It examined verses which show that we are to work hard and not look to others to meet our needs when we're able to do so on our own.
It also didn't villainize the modern corporation as Marxists do, but pointed to the value and God-given nobility of work, while pointing out that employers should be fair to their employees.
It even examined Biblical admonitions to give to the poor (oddly, not a single one was found that called on the government to steal from one person and give to another to accomplish it). But if you can find Biblical authority for that, I'm willing to listen.
Those samplings were broad and didn't point out--even in their proper context--why they were wrong, why the Bible doesn't say the things the Truth Project claims it does. If you have something more specific, I'm willing to examine it with you.
Curtis it sounds like you've been misled by some of the folks that simply hate capitalism, hate America, and hate the Bible.
As Christians, we are admonished to not be conformed to the world's way of doing things, but to be transformed by the renewing of our minds (Romans 12:2), which is best done by digging into what the Bible says.
Dale Bartscher is leading several of these Truth Project classes around the area, at different days/times of the week. They're free, and I'd really encourage you to contact him and find out when you can attend one. His office number is 791-2808 and his email is dale@sdfamily.org.
I'd honestly like to hear what you think after you've examined the Truth Projects materials and claims for yourself.
One key correction on my last comment.
ReplyDeleteThat 4th paragraph said "assert" when it should have said "deny". It should have read:
The Project says nothing to diminish the Constitution as the founding document (after the Declaration) of our United States government. However, only glaring ignorance or brazen dishonesty can deny that the Founders of the United States were predominately Christians and that the country was founded on Christian ideals and precepts with a Christian worldview in mind when they did so.
Thanks for allowing me to make the correction.
When Sagan said we're made of "star stuff" he was implying there is a direct chain of evolution/development between the beginning of all matter to our current state of existence.
ReplyDeleteWell, yeah. You have a problem with that? Oh, I forgot, you reject the Enlightenment.
Such wealth-redistribution schemes are born of envy and greed (sins) ... Curtis it sounds like you've been misled by some of the folks that simply hate capitalism, hate America, and hate the Bible.
Give me a break. The Bible teaches that the rich have a huge responsibility to the poor. The prophets go on and on about this, when sexual sins get dramtically shorter shrift.
Go read Jeremiah again.
Democracy gives us the grace-filled opportunity to put these biblical teaching into action. To me, a progressive tax system is a Christian imperative under any political system, but the power to make that Christian choice is in our own hands in America. It's a huge responsibility. The Christian Right is neither when they promote our regressive tax system, which takes money from people that have to choose between food and health insurance.
Dale Bartscher is leading several of these Truth Project classes around the area
I am well-acquainted with Dale, and I'd love to but I'm too busy with my kids, supporting my spouse, and working for truth and defending the disenfrancised this summer and fall.
Maybe after November.
Good to hear from you Bob.... Perhaps we can catch up with each other at Hills Alive, or the Black Hills Pridefest??
Do I have a problem with a direct chain of evolution/development between the beginning of all matter to our current state of existence? Oh yeah. And you should, too. It isn't even in the neighborhood of having been proven. And as a professing Christian, you should be believing what the Bible says (remember that bit in Genesis about God creating everything in 6 days, and establishing life as we see it today with organisms reproducing "after their own kind"?), rather than unproven ideas from people who don't even believe in your God in the first place. Humans are often wrong, but God never lies.
ReplyDeleteAs for the poor, the Bible teaches that every person has a responsibility to help the poor. I can't find anywhere in Jeremiah or any other place in the Bible where God appoints government to take money from one person and give it to another. PEOPLE are supposed to help each other, not impersonal government agencies. There's no real blessing for the giver or receiver that way, and responsibility, accountability and a better way of life usually suffers.
A fair tax system would tax everyone at the same rate, not giving preference to rich or poor, and not penalizing rich or poor. Or better yet, we could return to the system of tariffs and such to fund our government, as the country was originally intended to run.
I'm sure you're busy, as I am. But it is of paramount importance to both you and your family to live a Godly life according to the way God laid it out in the Bible. Luke 14:26 says God is supposed to come before everyone, even our family; the beauty of that plan is that if we seek first the kingdom of God, all the rest will fall into place, and even work out better.
I doubt I'll be at the pridefest, but I'm sure we'll catch up with each other sooner or later. Take care and trust in the Lord.